👥 BOUNDARIES: Week long discussion 👥

[Shaz51]

your posts have highlighted two sets of important values:
- "instrumental" values: like trust, honesty, loyalty and respect; and
- "terminal" values: like fulfilling relationships, education, equality and self love
They are both equally important to consider when creating boundaries!

Wow this is very interesting @cloudcore  and it is getting my brain working 

1. Think about two relationships in your life, and describe the boundaries you have with each one. How are they similar, and how are they different?

Relationship 1 , my Mum 

she has always been here for me , my rock , we have been through soo much together but now it is turning around as I have to become her rock 

Relationship 2 -- my step children 

always thought "I will just be their friend " , ha ha the boys loved having another mum 

but the eldest and the girl (daddy's girl) did not want another mum 

2. What boundaries do you have irrespective of who you have a relationship with?
with everything that i have been through already in life I can see that i have grown , I was really a YES person 

I ensure I am open and honest with clear lines of communication.--- sometimes still a yes girl but thinking more
3. Additionally, what boundaries remain or change for interactions online?

remembering that other people's time is valuable, as is yours, so spend it wisely. If you are going to indulge in a lot of time online, do it consciously, with a bit of self-assessment about what it means to you, what the need is that you are responding to, and remember that who you are and what you need matters as much as for the next person. --- I love this point @Faith-and-Hope 

[cloudcore]

I really appreciate the vulnerability shown in talking about our complex relationship dynamics, @Sophia1 , @Appleblossom @Corny , @BPDSurvivor , @TideisTurning @chibam @Faith-and-Hope , @NatureLover @Shaz51 .

I can see the 3 types of boundaries in your stories:

- rigid boundaries which are hard, protective boundaries that keep others at a distance, 

- porous boundaries which involve enmeshment, dependance and over-extension; and,

- healthy boundaries which set limits in relationships to protect your values.

Each of these applying to different relationships in your lives for very understandable reasons! Boundaires can be vastly different based on the nature of the relationship and the way someone has treated you.

I have personally had to implement rigid boundaries with a parent and an ex-partner. These relationships involved toxic dynamics of neglect and abuse. I've also had to implement more healthy boundaries with friends, who had blended my identity as a friend with my role as a mental health worker. These relationships required different kinds of boundaries based on the degree of mistreatment and/or the values I wished to honour.

Your stories have also highlighted an important idea- that boundaries are not innate or unchanging. Many of us have had to learn through life and experience to put boundaries in place, because at one point many of us didn't have boundaries in place at all. Some of us are still learning today.

This leads me to the next question which will be posted up shortly!

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Tagging @Former-Member @LostAngel @Powderfinger @frog 

[cloudcore]

Questions for Wednesday 25th of August:

People who are influential in your life act as models for boundary-setting, whether their boundaries are healthy or unhealthy. 

1. Think of someone who has helped shape who you are. What has this person taught you about boundaries, whether intentionally or unintentionally? 

2. Are there specific areas of your life you need to set boundaries for? How do you know if you need to establish boundaries?

[Sophia1]

Thank you @cloudcore 

Your opening statement was very helpful for me to read...raising the subject of vulnerability in talking about complex relationship dynamics..

I also thank you for distinguishing the boundaries for all to read...

I felt from the start, a hesitation, knowing that  boundary setting is important to think about and put in place..this often needing to be put in place as a response to vulnerable life experiences..as well as life in general...in regard to everyday relationships; personal or professional even in as far as next door neighbours...the list is long..

Everyone is at different stages...having/had different experiences....responds at different levels of sensitivity..or other emotions being felt..

Yesterday, I realised that I was feeling triggered by some of the tones of responses....Understanding at the same time the intensity of feelings being written about...as well as some of the subjects..

I continued to read through the next questions and responses..

The  accumulation of all of the responses now confirms that I am triggered quite profoundly by the detail and depth of experiences in relation to domestic abuse; controlling and narcissism..

 I do not feel safe within the environment that has been created here and appears to be possibly ongoing..

I feel that a thread about setting boundaries should take into consideration that people will be triggered if responses are allowed to include personal experiences where threat is involved..

A discussion can be had around situations from a general point of view without including personal detail..

There should be some very  clear boundaries set around the content of this thread in line with community guidelines which all of us have to adhere to on all threads...

Discussions of a more personal nature can be included on a thread specifically for experiences where the thread is clearly marked as such...

We have to always be mindful not just of the immediate audience....those who read without commenting...those who are new to the forums...

We have to be looking after everyone....

Processes put in place to do this should be followed also in threads started by sane forum representatives..

Discussed and organised before ...so that one single peer support worker is not left to carry the load...

again I want to stress I do not believe that you have said or done anything wrong @cloudcore ..quite the opposite..

I think that the theory is invaluable...setting boundaries is part of every human being's life including those who do not struggle with unwell minds at times...

These guidelines are important...very important  and need not be taken as criticising..understood as being there for the protection of all...So important to maintain every single individual's sense of safety on an extremely vulnerable social platform..

There is already great confusion around these guidelines and occasions where the boundaries are stated to be unclear...

I think that it would be vitally important to start a thread inviting participation around what is understood to be boundaries and what is not understood; deemed to be at the crossroads of boundaries within the community guidelines.

This hopefully would enable a safer discussion around what is trying to be achieved here..

I do believe that the majority of us do not set out to challenge the guidelines..

Also many threads contain raw,,,extremely vulnerable feelings about life experiences...challenges and not being able to handle it all....this is to be expected as the forums invite all...no matter how vulnerable....all as equals to participate..

Please do not take this as a criticism around you @cloudcore ...

I am not criticising your role at all..

I think the idea is excellent. very challenging and difficult to attain without someone...others perhaps...feeling sensitised and triggered...

It is a full circle situation where by clearly setting boundaries at the onset we can all together along with moderators work towards learning some valuable information around a subject that is vital for our health and survival ..when living with symptoms of unwell minds...

Lastly I do hope that this response is taken with the good intent that it is written for..

I realise yet again, I am putting myself in an awkward situation....standing up for what I feel are my rights as well as those of others who might feel the same and not feel comfortable enough to even read the thread let alone respond..

So thank you in advance for reading my thoughts...

Sophia 1

[Faith-and-Hope]

1. Think of someone who has helped shape who you are. What has this person taught you about boundaries, whether intentionally or unintentionally? 

My Mum taught me passive resistance ..... simply, quietly, not complying with someone else's expectations for you if either they have not responded to your placement of boundaries, or it

is obviously they are agressively going

to push back in an unhealthy way to your attempts to communicate with them.  

My ex actually taught me the same, by example, in how he dealt with other controlling family members.  I learned a lot by observing him, when I thought he was decent, about how to deal with him now that his true colours have come out.  Ironically .....

2. Are there specific areas of your life you need to set boundaries for? How do you know if you need to establish boundaries?

I have to keep boundaries up with my former in-laws, besides the ex ..... but do so by remaining very formal and polite with them.  It is hard to fault or push past formal, polite behaviour as a boundary.  I am not letting them in !! but I am  still interacting with them in a transactional way.  I have to by law re my disabled child (maintain her extended family relationships) and it's the best way to keep away from their mean side.

I have learned how to identify 'smiling assassins' now, and have my shield at the ready ...... there are red flags to watch out for:

1.  They try to rush the speed of a new relationship developing

2.  They are completely attentive and hang off your every word, but don't give anything much away themselves

3.  They may present themselves as your soul-mate or the answer to all your problems

4.  They are impatient and rude with others, who they consider inferior - wait staff in restaurants, clerks, people they consider unattractive or of no use to them

They are working out how to control you, and lure you into a service capacity that you think you are entering into willingly and in equal terms.  The balance will shift ..... however they can't maintain this stage for long - maybe 3-6 months - so give new relationships time yo show up for what they really are and don't rush in.

Make excuses to leave unwanted company.

Make yourself 'too busy' to spend much time with people who don't respect you.

Gently step away because a war is not worth it, unless it is the only way to create strong enough boundaries, at which point you might need to get authorities involved.

[LostAngel]

thanks for the Tag @cloudcore  yes boundaries are so important and always learning that in life it seems

[cloudcore]

Hi @Sophia1 ,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I can understand your concerns around some of the content of this discussion. I acknowledge your thoughts about it potentially being triggering for many. I'm sorry to hear that this has been your experience.

The role of the Community Guidelines is to ensure that we can talk about a range of topics in a safe and appropriate way – safe for the writer & reader. As you’ve identified, some threads may elicit discussions that can be more sensitising than others. Because of this, we are mindful of monitoring the space more closely and having our peer workers, moderators or community managers jump in to support the space if needed.

This then enables everyone to share the personal experiences they want to, in a safe and appropriate way, in line with our guidelines.

I acknowledge however that it can still be distressing to see when it comes up in a broader discussion on an open forum. It’s possible that this discussion will contain more personal accounts of experiences, as creating the space to share our stories is important. So please know that you're welcome to take time away from this thread, or simply jump in only when you're comfortable with the questions – please don’t feel like you have to read or respond to any posts. We value your contribution to this space, and we do encourage you to continue contributing to the questions that you’re comfortable getting involved in. It is just as important to take a step back when you need to for self care, but remember that you’re always welcome to join the discussion and we really do value your presence 

from cloudcore

[Powderfinger]

@cloudcore 

I'm interested to know more about rigid boundaries that you needed to lay with your toxic and abusive parent and ex partner. I have had the experience of both myself. I no longer have my parents in my life and been in quite a few abusive relationships. It took me a long time to learn about boundary setting. I'm still learning. In boundary setting, what if you lay a strong and firm boundary but it is completely ignored repeatedly? Should there be consequences relaying of said boundary, make a stronger boundary etc? 

Also, what type of boundaries can one make when people confuse your roles in their life? I grew up having to play many roles for my mother. I didn't know what my mother was doing was wrong. Very wrong. I was everything but a daughter. Since it started when I was so young and went on for a long time, I can identify when someone is confusing my role in their life and wanting me to be more which could lead to unhealthy and toxic relationships. 

I'm glad boundaries is a week long topic! 

PF

[Appleblossom]

I have been looking at maps of coasts, going over places I have visited in the past.  My father taught me about the edge of land and sea: a most magical and marvellous part of creation.  In turn, it taught me the importance of natural laws and realities and forces.  In passing away so young my father, also taught me about the boundary of life and death.

I have been on the edges of society a lot.  That has imposed a lot of boundaries upon me from without, which might be part of my resistance to boundaries as a good.  It greatly reduced my ability to apply boundaries of any type, while trying to get along with all and sundry.  So I am finally embracing the liberating feeling that I, Me, Apple can say no to others, quietly go my way, and that is a part of human rights, that me as a human, have rights too.

[Sophia1]

Thank you @cloudcore 

I appreciate your responding to my concerns..

I feel that you have addressed some of my concerns....not all...

I do not necessarily believe that it is your role to do so...

I too have been subjected to the subjects that I raised ...having to leave under protection...

I do not feel that it is necessary for  me to go into the details using a controlling, aggressive tone when the whole concept of the thread is about boundaries...

Controlling and aggression is not only about words...tone and actions..reactions also are part of the trauma..

I have do not feel the need to read all of the posts.

I am reading your response though as you wrote to me directly.

I also recognise the offer of being welcome to take time away which  I have done when recognising that I do need to...Thank you, I shall continue to follow through with this when I do feel that need..

There have in the past been incidents where members have been under scrutiny in regard to the content of their posts...

They have been advised to have an alert in the heading of the post that there may be contents within that could cause distress or harm in relation to the subjects that may arise..

This I believe to be a sensible and caring in advance procedure..

If the boundaries cannot be made known about this thread upfront...

Could there at least be a warning ,as is common place for the safety of all concerned... that is  clearly visible..

This is the best way of alerting all including some who are not in a clear mindset to read through several posts to then be distressed by seriously alarming content not forewarned...

I believe that all should be respected and treated equally...

all differences be accepted...

Feelings of all attended be protected.

Sophia1