@HenryX you wrote:
but I can't make out from the posts that either of you have written, what the characteristics are about these men that you like. There seem to be so many negatives and I haven't seen a positive characteristic in what either of you have written about the men that you claim to love.
I think the fist thing to point out, and I’m pretty sure I’m speaking for both of us, is that they weren’t like this when we fell in love with them. The people they are now are not the ones we were initially attracted to, nor the ones with whom we formed a deep and lasting bond.
If they had developed cancer, or diabetes, or Parkinson’s would we then be expected to stop loving them? No. Even if they had been “in remission” when we met and formed our attachments (as they no doubt were) and then relapsed would we be expected to turn off our love like a tap?
Why should mental illness be any different?
“Are you sure you're not just staying to save him? “.
We stay because we care what happens; because we know how difficult their lives would be without our help and because (in my case) of what he might do to himself if I don’t.
I suppose the word “staying” could be replaced by the word “trying”
Not trying to save him, trying to save us. Trying to recapture what was once an outstanding relationship and not yet ready to concede defeat. He had a severe breakdown six weeks after I’d met him and my personality is such that I could not turn my back on any human being in need of help regardless of how well I knew them. It took about 6 months for him to fully recover and I began charting his mood swings so that I could see when difficult times were coming and mentally prepare. It was working and I had never felt so valued or understood in my entire life.
“The devil you know is better than the devil you don't” or possibly “It is better to be with a difficult person to live with, than to live alone”.
Not in my case. When I did live alone I loved it. It was never my plan for this man to move into my house permanently but a year ago it was decided that we would all be safer if he stayed with me during the first lockdown and I homeschooled on of his boys while the other remained with his mother.
There was an incident with his Body Corporate a few months later and he has been unable to go home since May 2020. What he saw as a personal violation triggered more PTSD.
About half way through last year his mental state began to rapidly deteriorate. My graphs had much more red in them and while I used to take great comfort from having tangible proof that we was fine 70 to 80% of the time the numbers now tell quite a different story.
All this in a time when domestic violence is a topic that is so prevalent in all media formats.
That issue has been ever present in my mind for some time. I listen to a lot of podcasts and read extensively. From the outside looking in this man is coercively controlling me by threats and bullying. He is constantly revising his expectations so that I can never get it right. I am expected to keep my mouth shut and my legs open.
However you can’t look at his current behavioural trends without context. One of the key indicators is that controlling men can turn on the charm for all around them and only show their true colours behind closed doors. This man is unable to control the demons within anywhere right now.
His son’s school have an order out preventing him from approaching staff in person or by phone. He may only communicate via email. The power and internet have been disconnected at his residence because of the abusive way he has spoken to their staff making completely unreasonable demands and refusing to listen to their compromise proposals. He has been thrown out of Kmart and his GP’s surgery by security guards and I have been stopped in carparks by total strangers inquiring about my safety. I no longer go to family functions.
Mr SJT is quite a bit higher up the Autism spectrum than his two sons, diagnosed with Aspergers when we still called it that. He doesn’t approach the world in the same way as a great percentage of the population so most people have no idea why he is so upset and he has no idea why they don’t understand what he means. He is unable, through hard wiring, to compromise in any way or to view a situation from another’s perspective. This is why little things that many of us wouldn’t even notice (like a teaspoon pointing the wrong way in the drawer) make if very agitated. Something that I might find annoying, like having to go back to a shop if they’ve sold me the wrong size is, to him, an unforgivable error the damage from which can never be repaired.
Now overlay this with bipolar disorder (quite common in adult aspy’s). He is noticing and reacting to minutiae that would pass most people by with his responses amplified by a significant mood disorder.
There are so many men who simply do not understand why women stay in relationships like these.
I used to have my feet firmly planted in that camp too. Now I understand a lot more about how difficult it is for women in controlling, abusive relationships to extricate themselves. Most stay because they are afraid of the consequences for themselves and, more importantly, their children. Rosy Batty, Hannah Clark, Cindy Gambaro… there is a long list but women only make headlines when children are murdered as well. Many are financially dependent, most are too ashamed to share their experiences, some are so gaslit that they truly believe they are the problem.
Maybe I am brainwashed myself, but I don’t consider it to be a “relationship like these”. I have the same aggressive and controlling behaviour to confront, but the behaviour stems from illness not narcissism, it is not aimed solely at me, and it is beyond his control.
Please don't think that I am just suggesting free love till you find the right one. On the other hand, is intimacy in a relationship the only reason to stay there.
Intimacy is not even a factor. I have observed in my almost 60 years that women get more emotional intimacy from their girlfriends most of the time, whereas men get their emotional intimacy only from their partner, and it is usually linked to physical intimacy. It has been so with my partners and the partners of my friends at least. Even fat old ladies like me have no trouble getting a bit if they have an itch that needs scratching.
If he and I go a couple of days without physical intimacy he starts to worry that I don’t love him anymore. That is also partway due to his ASD which means his understanding of relationships never progresses beyond that first flush of passion to a more relaxed approach despite his advancing years. That is very common. They just don’t understand that the physical can plateau to a level of mutual comfort that is different from the urgency of a new relationship.
Why do I stay? If love is not enough to justify it then try loyalty, compassion, understanding, purpose and perhaps even duty. If staying for him is not enough, then will staying for his very elderly parents suffice? I was asked by his psychologist why I assumed his mental health was more important than mine and the answer isn't too hard. I am very sad, I am stressed beyond belief, I am exhausted but I am not mentally ill and he is.
I am a male well up in the age range and it is so distressing to see lives so tortured by men and sometimes women, when life 'should' be rewarding, stimulating, and productive.
Rewarding:
I have two well adjusted adult children, one of whom lives in England. I have a good job where I am valued and extended every day. I love to create useful or wearable objects from any number of media. Only the weekend just gone I did some emergency alterations to an almost ruined wedding gown for a friend of a friend of my daughter who will now feel as she should walking down the aisle today.
Stimulating:
I never stop learning. I read and watch a lot of history.
I have recently qualified and been authorized as a Commonwealth Registered Marriage Celebrant. This brings together my life-skills in public speaking, creative writing, community service and organization into a neat bundle that can be my retirement income when my employer retires himself in a year or two.
Productive:
As well as making my own clothes I make at home all our bread, yoghurt, vinegar, and soap. We are self-sufficient for vegetables and I preserve, dry or bottle the excess. I present those in my care with restaurant quality meals most nights of the week and I bake every weekend.
I hold down a full time job as well as studying after hours for my Cert IV in Celebrancy.
I became an educated and erudite female role model for his two boys.
No wonder I’m tired. 😊 Some weekends are less productive than others with a lot depending on whether he will let me sleep. If he lets me sleep I can cope with pretty much anything but he doesn’t often let me sleep for whole night these days.
As you can see, I am not defined by my role as a carer for a mentally ill partner. I become weary and cowed by it sometimes and these forums are of great solace. I can vent anonymously and receive a virtual "there, there"; the acknowledgment of my struggle by people who understand.
There are only 3 people who actually know how I live, one is a medical professional and the other is a survivor and her daughter. All three think I should leave.
If I were staying with him and not the other way around perhaps I would have left already. If I didn’t understand how soul destroying it would be for him to see his own place again I would maybe ask him to go home one or two nights a week; but I do understand and so I’m wedged between that rock and hard place. If I wanted to leave him I would have to surrender the home I scraped together a deposit for as a 40 year old divorcee with two children in private school and have now almost paid for.
No I cannot just have him evicted from my home, I care too much about how it would affect him. I have plenty of resilience and he has none.
Your questions were valid questions and I hope I have done them justice. I hope I’ve given you a glimpse of the female perspective on such things and I would be very keen to hear if what I’ve said resonates also with @thelorax
xoxo
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