Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Impala]

Hi again,

I am pretty sure my mum is manic, which usually leads to her being psychotic. I can't go through this again.

I tried to talk to her yesterday about how she is saying and doing things that she usually does just before she gets's sick. But she thinks she is fine. She won't listen to me at all about it and never does. I suggested she take one of her anti psychotic tablets (because although she is meant to take them every day, along with a mood stabiliser, she doesn't). She said she might. But I don't think she did. She sounds more 'off' today then she did yesterday on the phone.

I just don't know what I am meant to do. She is not bad enough to call 000 or anything. I've been told to do that if she is a threat to herself others but she isn't right now, And even most times when she IS full blown psychotic she doesn't seem dangerous but she could be (has been) so I never know what to do.

It usually ends up with myself and my sister arguing with her to get her to take a tablet. Which is very traumatizing to me. I tried to pre empt it this time by bringing it up as soon as I saw the signs; because in the past to keep the piece (trying not to aggravate her and make her sick quicker) I have held my tongue hoping I was worrying for no reason. That is rarely the case. This time, I tried t be brave and talk to her about it. I was clam...and surprisingly so was she but she still woudn't listen. I didn't push it today because I'd like;y make the situation worse she would get angry most likely and it would just make her mania worse.

I think because she knows I have anxiety problems she thinks everything i get concerned about is nothing.

I honestly don't think I can do this again. It's been 7 years of hell.

I am going to add some back story here...it will be long. Sorry.

My mum didn't have her first Bipolar episode until she was 45. Before this she was relatively 'normal'. She was always quick to anger/a little controlling and tried to guilt trip me a lot. But my childhood was pretty ok. She was a single mother who looked after my sister and I the best she could. I don't think she was always fair to me...but I do think she did her best. She pretty much always put us first. But a lot of times tried to through that back in your face later.

In 2006 my Pop (her Father) died suddenly. He was the only support she had left. He helped us out financially etc.

She became depressed. But still functioned pretty well. She went on antidepressants. She was on them a little a while. I can't remember how long exactly (but less than a year).

In 2007 Just after my 21st birthday she started to act strange. I had no idea what was going on at all. She was really angry and hyped up etc. Which I now know is mania. This went on for a couple of weeks. She was constantly abusing me so I went to stay at my boyfriends place. She then began to act more strange and paranoid, which I know now is psychosis.

My sister and I had no idea what was going on being so young and never having dealt with it before. She ended up freaking out (while my sister and I were at work) and thought people were after her. She went around the corner to a neighbours house (older woman in a wheelchair) saying she needed to call for help; I think she thought people were after her. Some how she had an altercation with the woman and hurt the woman during her freak out. The woman called police who ended up taking her to a psych ward.

Our next door neighbour contacted my sister and I as she had seen most of it happen. We had no idea what was going on still. Mum was kept is the psych ward for a few days. She said she had heard Pops voice telling her to run out of the house etc. The doctors ended up diagnosing her with a nervous break down (we now know that was wrong).

We were kicked out our house and struggled to find a new one. My boyfriend and I got engaged for our 5 year anniversary; but I stayed living with mum and my sister to help pay the rent at our new house as mum couldn't work and they wouldn't give her the pension at that time.

We lived there for just over 6 months and she was depressed but didn't have any more manic or psychotic episodes at all. Even with all the stress of what happened and dealing with a court case (the lady in the wheelchair pressed charges) she didn't go manic or psychotic. I eventually moved in with my fiancé as my sister and mum moved into a cheaper house.

She was put back on anti-depressants in late 2008 (because she had been diagnosed with a nervous break down not bipolar) and one year after her first episode she had a second episode. In Nov 2008 she went into mania and than psychosis again. At the time I knew something was wrong again before she went psychotic but I still new nothing about bipolar, all I knew was she was acting weird again. She ended up trying to commit suicide. She was taken to hospital in an ambulance. They then diagnosed her with bipolar brought on by anti depressants.

So she had her first episode in Nov 2007 and second in Nov 2008 both brought on my antidepressants. In-between she didn't cycle or anything; other then being depressed. The was no 'high' just low. Between 2008 and 2011 she had at least one full blown manic episode and at least one of those per year has led to psychosis. She had many mood swings up and down and several I thought would turn to mania but suddenly didn't. All of these happened when she was NOT on antidepressant. After her diagnosis the doctors obviously stopped offering her those. Doctors told us she was bipolar type 3 brought of by anti depressants. But that is obviously not the case either. Becasue as I mentioned above she get's 'sick' when not taking them. Sometimes I have been able to see what's maybe set her off. stressful situations etc. And other times I have no idea what has happened.

She thinks doctors are the enemy because the original doctor that put her on anti depressant in 2007 (before she had her first psychotic episode) put her on too high a dose and she blames him for what happened. She thinks all doctors are idiots. Hence she won't see them often and wont take medication as she should. 

In 2011 she was finally put on the pension.

 
In 2012 she didn't have a manic or psychotic episode at all, just mood swings. (while NOT taking medication). So I have no idea why she can make it that long without going into full blown mania or psychosis with no medication and then be sick over and over again in the one year.

In 2013 she had a bad episode of mania and psychosis. She was abusive and paranoid and kept accusing people of things that were not true at all. She was trying to work a part time job at the time. Which she couldn't cope with which set her off.

And Easter 2014 she had a medium episode of mania and psychosis. This is one where i have NO IDEA why she got sick at all. She was paranoid but not really abusive which was very surprising because every single other time she has been a nightmare to deal with. This was stressful too as you never know what way it's going to go.

Now at first it seemed that antidepressants caused it. Because the first two episodes happened while she was on them. But now it happens without them. Stress set her off. She can't work. But she seems to cycle and have episodes for no apparent reason now and I just don't know what to do.

I really don't know why it started of with antidepressants setting her off and now it happens on it's own. Even in times of no stress?

Why is it that between the first 2 episodes (07 and 08) when she was very depressed and stressed about what had happened, where we lived and had a court case for attacking the lady in the wheelchair did she not have an episode? Not even a sign of one. And now anything can cause one. 

 Sorry that was so long.  Not sure why I wrote all that but I just feel scared and confused and stuck. I feel like I can't have a life. I feel like I can't help her.

I know you guys probably can't help either because I don't think there is anything I can do. I can't ring her doctor because she rarely sees her gp (the only doctor he has) and if she doesn't it's not for bipolar. I do feel annoyed that when she goes there for other stuff he doesn't ask why she hasn't been getting prescriptions for her bipolar medication or anything.

She won't see anyone or listen to anyone.

I am so scared all the time. Not just for her. But because the second last time she got sick (in 2013) she started accusing people of things. Criminal things that were not true at all. She accused someone I love very much of commiting assault. Which was NOT true and I am always so scared that she will do that again if she gets sick. I am scared she'd go to the police and they would believe her or something. I feel like everything is so out of control.

Sorry for rambling so much.

[Baboo]

Hello @Impala,

This does sound like a very trying time for you and your sister. You sound like you do a very good job already caring for your mum.

What do you think should happen differently this time if your mother does go into psychosis?

Do you speak with any CATT team/ psyc ward staff members before she has had to go to hospital or before an ambulance picks her up? 

I feel like i need to ask you more questions before any of my responses might be in any way helpful.

Does your mum think she is unwell at all? How do you approach her about her health?

The biggest question pressing me at the moment is how you do your own self care. Who do you talk to about being your mums carer? Doctor, counsellor? Having a vent on a forum too is good self care.

It does sound like your doing the best you can considering the situation- its hard when you have to wait for your mum to become really unwell before she is made to see a doctor ( 000 call i mean)

Baboo

[Impala]

Hi @Baboo,

Thanks for replying.

I'm not sure what should go differently.

I just wish she would listen to us when we see the signs. Or become more proactive at seeing them herself at least, especially when she refuses the medication she should take daily. I wish I could call someone who would take care of it all for me so I don't have to see it and feel it all. And I wish the hospital would take her in and keep her until she has her illness under control and can mange it.

We have never spoken to anyone before her being in hospital

The times she has been in hospital:

The first time she ever went psychotic (07) before diagnosis. She was taken by police after attacking another person during psychosis.

The second time (08) again before diagnosis. She attempted suicide. My sister still lived at home at the time and called an ambulance.

The only other time she was taken to a hospital during psychosis was in June 2013. My sister and I (with a lot of difficultly) drove her to go to the ER of our local hospital. They didn't keep her or transfer her to a hospital with a psych ward. The Dr who saw her said she was in hypomania (wrong!) gave her a sheet with a few doses of the antipsychotic she should be on and told her to follow up with her regular GP (which she wouldn't).

All other times she hasn't gone to hospital at all. She had her medication in a draw (and one time she saw her GP (she has a different one now). We have manged with a lot of difficutly to get her to take enough doses for her to come out of psychosis eventually. Though I still wouldn't say she was 'right', usually takes her months to seem normalish.

It's horrible trying to deal with her in the ways we have; but I am scared about calling an ambulance. I think it would be even more stressful because of how she would react.

In general my mum knows she has bipolar but really doesn't know much about the illness. She won't learn about it or seek help for it. Won't talk about it or set up any sort of 'plan' for when she is sick. Bringing it up in any of her states just turns into her being mad (which can turn into mania) so I don't bring it up much. I try to if I think she needs to take antipsychotics. But again this doesn't go well.

When she is manic/psychotic she doesn't think she is sick at all. And thinks it's all in MY head.

My self care is this, talking on forums. And to my husband.

[Baboo]

What comes to mind first of all is change.

You sound like you know very well how things were managed in the past and their out comes. but what do you think would happen if you changed your approach and did tell your mum ( for example) "I love you mum- but i do think you are unwell and do need help". If the response is negative or your mum states your wrong you can put the questions back onto her- "What do you want to happen, how do you want me to help you?"

I have a similar struggle trying to help a family member who is obese- different health issue- but the same response with not seeking help- not actively working to wards recovery- making others around them feel worried for their well being every time they see them. Its so had when some one simply does not think there is a problem- and then of course gets angry with you for trying to help. I have dropped hints, offered to pay for programs out of my own money, made deals with them, yelled at them, cried to them- i even rang their doctor and told them my concerns in hope the doctor would bring it up the next time they had an appointment.

This person of mine i so desperately want to help, refuses all and any i give. Some times the best you can do- is be honest with your opinion- hold your ground on it- and help as much as you can along the way.

At the moment i think speaking with some health professionals about your mum is a start. Get as much advice as you can and then make up your mind on how your going to work with your mum on it.

I hope others on the sight help you as well. If i see any good conversations ill tag you in them for a read up too.

Baboo

[BeHappy]

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Reinhold Niebuhr

Similar to what Baboo has suggested I think looking at what you can actually change can be really helpful. Often people focus on wanting to change the behaviour of others (wanting them to take them meds, go see a doctor etc). They do this because they want what's best for them. But the difficult thing is you can't make some one do what they don't want to do. So looking at ways you can change your approach, or strategies to look after you is important.

Obviously in some circumstances involuntary treatment is required when people become a risk to themselves or others. But for long haul when things are not at that stage, look at things you can do to make the situation better. Impala, you sound exhausted. Remember to look after yourself. People who care for others, also need to be cared for too.

BeHappy

[Baboo]

thanks Behappy- this is a fantastic response