👥 BOUNDARIES: Week long discussion 👥

[Lyra_reachout]

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@cloudcore wrote:

Questions for Thursday 26th of August:

In some relationships, healthy boundaries seem to form naturally and easily. In other relationships, however, setting healthy boundaries is difficult.  

1. What challenges and feelings have you faced when trying to set healthy boundaries, and when your boundaries have been breached?

2. What was the impact and how did you handle them (or could you handle them)?

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I don't like being blamed for other people's emotions. That's a strong boundary for me. I am very willing to talk about issues, feelings etc...but I have a strong boundary that adults need to be responsible for their feelings by managing how they behave and how they talk, and not judge each other. No one is perfect, I get that, so mistakes are okay, I slip up as well. The important thing is to be able to acknowledge it and learn from it and try to understand each other. 

But I have found it challenging to hold that boundary when I empathise strongly with someone I am close to, even if I am getting emotionally hurt in the process. For example, if I understand their backstory and have some understanding of why they might be acting the way they are, then I often make excuses for bad behaviour, or give them lots of chances. In a recent relationship, I kept getting drawn into these arguments that made no sense. At first, I couldn't really handle it. It brought out the less nice aspects of my persoality and then I started to blame myself and doubt my own communication skills, until I saw that in fact, it was my bf who was finding it hard to express himself and was taking it out on me and turning everything around to be my fault. 

I tried to discuss it, but it never went well and in the end I left the relationship because I could see the dynamic was not going to change and that I would never feel happy in that situation. It was really hard to leave, and it took a while for me to build up my self-belief that I would be alright on my own. I had help. I spoke to my psychologist and also a good friend. I really told the truth to my friend about everything that was happening. And she really helped me say the words I needed to say to make the break up real. I haven't relied on friends like that for such a long time. It made such a big difference. 

[Faith-and-Hope]

1. What challenges and feelings have you faced when trying to set healthy boundaries, and when your boundaries have been breached?

At first I was distressed, and thought I had mis communicated, contributing to the problem.  So I tried again, and again, and tried to communicate more clearly, held out olive branches, asked for help from others for support, only for the person who was causing chaos in my life to mockingly tell me that they had me painted into a corner, so when they told me to jump I was to jump ...... when they told me to sit I was to sit ..... and they would tell me how my life was going to work under their control.  That was my first intro to NPD, only I didn't know what it was.

That wasn't my ex, but they were being enabled by my ex, which I didn't understand at the time either.

I became angry, really angry.  At that time I didn't recognise the slippery slope of anger turning to bitterness, and then hatred.  They really had a strangle-hold on my life and it was slowly destroying all of my relationships, including with my new-ex husband, I thought.

A counsellor helped me to recognise what this was doing to me, so I worked on placing good strong boundaries, supporting them with consequential actions and dealing very coolly and politely with those who were injuring me.

When manipulation games continued I calmly let my husband know that I was going to leave, not because I didn't love him anymore, because I did, but I couldn't deal with the circumstances, so they had to change.  He then 

'supported' me to withdraw almost completely from the people causing me such grief, but little did I know he was still manipulating the situation.  Basically he called them off, leaving me to believe it was the result of the boundaries I had placed ..... 

Longer story short, I had to realise that some relationships will only ever be superficidd as l, and while we were reliant on each other fir business reasons and shared family resources, I had to accept transactional 'rules' to maintain balance, privacy and autonomy.  As long as we conducted business-like dealings with each other it worked well enough to be functional.

Things changed later with ex for a variety of reasons, that spiralled into the Devaluation >> Discard cycle I mentioned earlier.  I have a whole new understanding about the so-called mid-life crisis !! 

2. What was the impact and how did you handle them (or could you handle them)?

Sorta answered this one above.  

 now conduct two levels of relationships in my life - ones I consider warm, reciprocal, healthy, and ines that are purely functional, business-like, formal and coolly-polite, because those ones are with people who will manipulate, control amd abuse others to get their way if you let your guard down with them.  A polite shield keeps those ones at arms length.

Ex is a different matter entirely.  The betrayal and abuse were extreme, so I called in authorities and that relationship will never recover.  It's outside my door and will stay there - maintaining as low contact as is possible with vulnerable kids in the mix.

[Appleblossom]

@cloudcore Not sure if you were inspired by my Boundary thread and posts re different approaches to boundaries and the rigid porous types etc.  Here  I did"resurrect" it a few times and it is still relevant.

I have kept my responses on this thread fairly minimal, as not sure it needed my essays.

I was dissappointed by the lack of response and interest on my thread at the time I posted on it, but welcome responses from  others on it, if they see fit. 

I guess different posters carry different weight and get different acknowledgment.

Apple

[BPDSurvivor]

Hi @cloudcore  and everyone else! @Appleblossom @Faith-and-Hope @Lyra_reachout @WildGypsyRose 

1. What challenges and feelings have you faced when trying to set healthy boundaries, and when your boundaries have been breached?

Often, I find it is I, myself, who steps over the boundaries rather than the other party. Now, it rarely happens because I am very cautious not to overstep the boundaries. I find adhering to these boundaries often means being mindful of everything I do, so as to be in control of my actions, rather than act on instinct (my instincts haven't been the healthiest).

At times when boundaries HAVE been breach by others, I ensure there is clear communication to show it was not acceptable, and why. Sometimes, they may have reasonable responses as to why they crossed the boundaries, otherwise, they do tend to apologise and moving forward, are more careful.

2. What was the impact and how did you handle them (or could you handle them)?

Once again, rather than holding grudges, I've learnt to speak to the person directly so as to reduce the incidence of miscommunication. I explain the situation as well as how I felt, and work together to come up with ways to reduce the likelihood of another occurance.

Main thing - communication.

[Faith-and-Hope]

Thanks for the link to the Boundaru thread @Appleblossom.  It will be good to have that already established thread to carry forward the conversations past this week did all those who want to, and when this thread is closed.

[Shaz51]

that is a great idea @Appleblossom , @Faith-and-Hope 

[Appleblossom]

Thank you @Faith-and-Hope @Shaz51 

@cloudcore 

So often throughout my life my boundaries were crossed in so many ways that I took it as my default mode. Being transgressed.  This is an important discussion and keeping it open rather than too prescriptive is also important.

[Corny]

That's very painful @Shaz51 I am sorry that happened with your father, it has deep impacts. Corny 

[Shaz51]

thank you @Corny  and sending you hugs my friend 

I was going to answer the questions of today @cloudcore  but sorry unable to at the moment 

[chibam]

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@cloudcore wrote:

Questions for Thursday 26th of August:

In some relationships, healthy boundaries seem to form naturally and easily. In other relationships, however, setting healthy boundaries is difficult.  

1. What challenges and feelings have you faced when trying to set healthy boundaries, and when your boundaries have been breached?

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Once upon a time, I was in a situation where I would be summoned to gatherings or outings on average about once a week. Often there would be very little notice. But my attendance would always be. in effect, obligatory. The people would get very pushy when I showed any signs of reluctance.

They were very tiresome affairs. Sometimes there'd be plenty of youthful heavy drinking, which would lead to some funny drunken antics. But otherwise there was nothing noteworthy, memorable or remotely enjoyable about these events.

But I kept allowing myself to be dragged off to these things, feeling obligated to please my "friends"; and also constantly hoping that these events might lead me to making new social and professional connections (much to my disappointment, there were almost never any new faces at these events).

I got  so worn down by these tiresome hassles that I increasingly felt the need to have a "vacation" from these people. So there came a time when I decided to make polite excuses when I was summoned off to these events. Just to give myself a week or two of freedom away from them (although the phone calls didn't stop. )

That's when things got nasty.

Being branded "antisocial"; being branded as something... lesser. All those subtle jibes and passive-aggressive remarks that you can't put your finger on, but you jus know indicate that these people are looking down their noses at you.

Then there's the awkward interactions with more distant contacts, who have heard through the grapevine that "there's something wrong" with you.

I remember one instance where I attended a birthday party at some guy's (an old school chum's) house. I knew all the family; but I only had tangential interactions with many of them and it was not unusual for me to go months or years without crossing paths with some of them. After all, only one member of the family had been in my year at school.

Yet that night, every single member of that family made a point of coming up to me and giving me the exact same word-for-word speech: "It's really good to see you here. We should see you a lot more." Some of these people... it was just such a glaringly alien statement. They didn't talk like that. They were nice people, but they weren't that openly sentimental. They had clearly been coached. Word had gotten to this family that "@chibam is broken, and so we need to pitty him and take steps to fix him."

And the tone of voice... it was so accidentally patronizing. I felt like I was being treated like an intellectually handicapped person who had managed to get dressed all by himself; and now people felt compelled to gushingly praise him for it, or else we mightn't be able to get him to do it right ever again.

All this grief... just because I just needed a break.

So after that, I dilligently showed up to everything I was summoned to; hoping to wipe the stain of "antisocial" off of my reputation. But it never, ever came off. The label stuck, as did the associated contempt of being "a loser". Any hint of reluctance on my part was responded to with threats that the "antisocial loser" label would be applied to me even more firmly then it already was.

And, of course, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Every move I made regarding these people was made under duress. Of course I came to recognize them as my captors! Of course I grew to hate them! Of course I grew to loathe being in the same room as them! Of course I became truly "antisocial" towards them!

The worst of it came one time when I was invited to a wedding interstate. Miles and miles from all my social worries back home. This was going to be a true vacation. And better yet, an opportunity to meet new people, who hadn't been contaminated with all those ugly perceptions of me that had spread throughout the home town. My first chance in years to perhaps make some real connections.

Then I end up on a street corner with some guy I've known for perhaps all of one hour. He turns to me, bold as you like, and asks: "So, when are you gonna get a life?" Nothing I had said to him (or anyone up there) could've possibly conveyed that I had social problems back home. We'd only had very generic small talk.

I had travelled over a thousand kilometers, and I still couldn't outrun my bleak and unjust reputation. Where do you turn for hope when things are that bad?

Naturally, after I'd been insulted like that, I wasn't eager to see the guy ever again.

But then a few days later, he comes in and aggressively cuts me off as I was just about to leave on a predecided outing. He "invites" me to go bowling, in front of witnesses. I try to make my excuses, but he disarms them at every turn. And all I can think about this whole time is the nightmare I'm trapped in back at home; where I have no freedom to sau "no" to people I want nothing to do with. This whole disaster is happening all over again, in a completely differant state, for god's sake! If I can't get out of this situation right now, it will just keep happening over and over and over again! I will be this bully's slave, and I'll always be looking over my shoulder waiting for him to drag me off into whatever ordeal he wants to put me in, under threat of being defamed and socially ruined if I refuse.

I couldn't go back into that hell again. So he boxed me into openly admitting that I didn't want to go anywhere with him.

Then, of course, I become the bad guy; the "antisocial" delinquent who refuses a polite, friendly invitation to go bowling. And so my reputation of being "antisocial" is officially validated, and perpetuated ad nauseum.

I often wonder if I could've wiped my record clean by bending over backwards to appease this guy. Would my family have decided that the rumors about me being "antisocial" must've been bullshit, if I'd been willing to prove myself to be a good sport to this guy?

Personally, I doubt it. I suspect it would've just been a whole heap of senseless stress and suffering.

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@cloudcore wrote:

2. What was the impact and how did you handle them (or could you handle them)?

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I suppose the major impact is an enduring contempt for humanity.

When those have been your major relationships with the human race... you don't tend to have kind expectations for the remainder of the race. Especially when your sample base extends from one end of the country to the other, but the results are strikingly similar.

It's made me super cautious about all manners of arrangements going forward (my stint in therapy plays a role here, too).

Now, before I allow myself to enter into any sort of situation, I need to be as certain as possible that I will be happy to live out the remainder of my life within that situation. That includes friendships/relationships, residancy situations, professional situations, jobs, clubs - everything.

I have to be comfortable with the idea that I may well grow old and die being entangled in that arrangement. Because experiance has taught me that you can never count on there being an easy exit available to you if things get ugly. You can wind up trapped in a situation, potentially forever.

So you better be damned sure that that situation is exactly where you want to be, before you go bumbling in there.