Fragile

[Appleblossom]

@Abner 

Music is wonderful and so is language. 

[Till23]

Agree @Abner, hopefully we work it out before it’s too late. I think it’s already too late for those being born right now. The temps in 50 years are not going to be survivable along with floods, fires and cyclones, all of which increase as temperature increase. We have to go back to sustainable lifestyles. But since, for example, 60% of new vehicles sold in Australia are now SUVs, it’s unlikely people will give up these things, even when they’re aware of the medium to long term effects 

[Abner]

I know @Till23 , and that's why I worry about the future for my great nieces and nephews, we're simply not leaving them a future, let alone one that's liveable.  We're sacrificing the future so we can have SUVs and air-conditioned now.  How little we value the future for those who aren't us. 

I find myself shocked at the apathy, eventhough I know it's the same apathy that helped bring about the concentration camps, death camps, and the holocaust. 

My grandfather, [edited by moderator] was a prisoner in Buchenwald from 1942 till 1945 when General Patten's battalion liberated that camp.  He got to meet General Patten, who stripped the commanding officer of the camp of his clothes so Louis could have some decent and warm clothes to wear, as, like all the other prisoners my grandfather [edited] was so ill he was vulnerable even to the mildest weather, and the uniforms they were forced to wear offered no protection against any of the elements.   And as they were constantly underfed, over-worked, physically bashed and tortured the uniforms were like wearing pyjamas in a blizzard, even in the height of a northern European summer.  

So I know that apathy all too well, and it's frightening.

[Till23]

Yes @Abner apart from climate apathy. There is the terrible rise of the far right. I just keep thinking to myself - it hasn't even been 100 years since Nazism. Do we learn nothing from, history, from science, from nature?

I have to deliberately not think about it as it's too depressing otherwise

[Appleblossom]

Some people are apathetic @Abner  but not many people I currently interact with are.... 

Most of them are careful about their ecological footprint, some of them are frugal some strongly driven for climate and social justice.

Maybe I am fortunate at the moment. 

This was a thread I began in utter vulnerability and I am stronger now than when I first posted. I am still alive. That wasn't a given. I was silenced so much. Not now. Wow!

@rav3n @tyme 

[tyme]

Your strong spirit is such an inspriation. Sounds like that's what got you through, no matter how horrendous things have been @Appleblossom 

[Appleblossom]

Thank you @tyme 

I don't know why I was the one left alive. But ya gotta do what you gotta do.

It's interesting, now I am reflecting on my friendship history. After my German friend in Sydney, there was a Hungarian friend but then I was sent to Melbourne. That my friends didn't last was not my shortcoming but simply a factor of me being moved all over the place by various adults including parents, grandparents and the state.

This week, I see the OT. Last time he apologized for a question on a form about longevity in relationships that was supposed to assess me but was actually very triggering.

I now feel connected online here and in my "real" life. More connected than ever, though my family tragedies remain significant. 

[Abner]

I totally agree @Appleblossom . I'm not holding history against anyone, we're all responsible for it, the good and the bad.  No one's hands are clean.

However I'm well aware that the Hitlers of the world happen in the places we least expect them. 

We didn't expect Hitler in Germany because it was such a cultured, educated, enlightened country. We don't expect them in USA for the reason that it's such a democratic, educated, enlightened country, but as William Scheier said those are exactly the places where they take us by surprise, because they harness the support of large social groups that aren't coping with their deep feelings of insecurity.  They're not bad people, they just can't cope with their feelings of insecurity, and to people like Hitler and Donald Trump that's a gold mine.  

That's why trying to change people minds about their beliefs and bigotries backfires.  No one wins a war against ideas, but we can say to those people "You have places where you can express your view, you don't have to express th at the expense of others."

It's not just rightwing people who feel that insecurity, leftwing people feel it, and it's every bit as frightening there too.  I have a sister who's leftwing and deeply insecure in that way, and she's not easy to get along with for that reason.  She sees anyone who's view is different from hers as a threat.  Anyone of any political persuasion can harbour such an insecurity, it's basically another expression of our humanity, but as Scheirer understood it's easily harnessed to the evil purposes those like Hitler and Stalin.

[Appleblossom]

I am needing to regroup for me. Vulnerable. I am too open. I invite but am too sensitive and my family circumstances are too complex. I am glad my immediate ancestry has been modest. Not adding to destruction. The Extended family did choose greed and their own ambition over caring or even including us. 

Sadly I have witnessed how rabid political self righteous produces an opposite reaction. Eg the right is somewhat produced by the excesses of the left. The American father of my kids, so obsessed with American politics, more than caring for who my son was drove him to the right. So we do need to be careful when self righteousness is just a shield for lack of love. I long for real respectful nuanced conversation, but there are so many triggers everywhere. No easy villains to blame like in the movies. So instead of banging on about disaffected young men we need to understand the causes. I have a UN poster by a beautiful artist Katie Kollwitz. “Germany’s children are starving”. She was an old lefty and drew the Revolt of the Weavers. Yes I know well problems of access to food. Grandfather also told me of the women filling their prams with cash to buy food for their families. No feeling sorry for my self coming out of the orphanages. There were always needy people.

I try and shoulder my load. Making lasagne today. Grateful for food and being clothed and people in my life. Nothing taken for granted. Always complexity around me. I remember someone was frustrated with me and said I didn’t have to be a UN diplomat., but this stuff keeps coming up. Tired of working hard to keep the boat afloat. Gently bently. Glide in on the tide…buy some mince and onions and don’t let over privileged vegans guilt trip me. There is always something I am doing wrong. Should I still be here. 

 @tyme 

[Dimity]

Sending you my love @Appleblossom . I tend to withdraw sometimes during big debates.... it's not so much that I don't have strong opinions but I'm easily bruised and feel wounded by politics and economics that are less than nurturing and sustaining.

You've survived much tragedy with strength and dignity and forged many connections through your own efforts. If you need to take time and regroup your many friends will wait for you. Take care.